Quatos for 234mm Quad X? Thrust curve measurement?

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Quatos for 234mm Quad X? Thrust curve measurement?

Postby Mullet » Mon Apr 27, 2015 1:13 am

I'd ideally like to use Quatos on an upcoming quad I'll be building. I understand the part about measuring mass (for the most part). A good recommendation for a length measuring device would be helpful. I also understand the part about measuring weight. I have a digital scale that measures in grams. The part that I don't understand is the thrust curve measurements. I have 12A BLHeli flashed ESCs. I also have Sunnysky 2204s 2300KV motors. Finally, I plan to use CF 6045 props. I've read that Quatos requires ESC32 for thrust curve measurement. I've also read that people are doing Quatos with KISS ESCs. Anyone in the US (or Europe) have a rig and know how to measure my prop/motor/esc combo and also a willingness to do a favor? I could send out a prop/motor/esc combo for proper testing. I'd do it myself, but don't have the know how or proper tools. Otherwise, perhaps it might be a better idea to stick to PID. Quatos is really appealing though and half the reason of going AutoQuad.
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Re: Quatos for 234mm Quad X? Thrust curve measurement?

Postby aBUGSworstnightmare » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:26 am

Mullet wrote:I'd ideally like to use Quatos on an upcoming quad I'll be building. I understand the part about measuring mass (for the most part). A good recommendation for a length measuring device would be helpful. I also understand the part about measuring weight. I have a digital scale that measures in grams. The part that I don't understand is the thrust curve measurements. I have 12A BLHeli flashed ESCs. I also have Sunnysky 2204s 2300KV motors. Finally, I plan to use CF 6045 props. I've read that Quatos requires ESC32 for thrust curve measurement. I've also read that people are doing Quatos with KISS ESCs. Anyone in the US (or Europe) have a rig and know how to measure my prop/motor/esc combo and also a willingness to do a favor? I could send out a prop/motor/esc combo for proper testing. I'd do it myself, but don't have the know how or proper tools. Otherwise, perhaps it might be a better idea to stick to PID. Quatos is really appealing though and half the reason of going AutoQuad.


Hi Scott,
I can share the trust measurement data for MN2206 + T-Motor 6x2CF props. It's what Christof and I are using on the M4Q300 viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3891
I'm still flying this craft on PIDs but will change it to QUATOS soon.

Christof made the measurements for that setup. Meanwhile I've bought my own motor tester but it still needs to be assembled.
I bought this one:
Image
Shop link: http://www.mhm-modellbau.de/part-KR-491018.php

Well, you need to measure thrust (kitchen scale will be used with this stand), current and voltage at a given RPM. An ESC32 gives you current and voltage without the need for additional measurement equipment (i.e. eLogger V4 http://www.eagletreesystems.com/index.p ... duct_id=54).

As alreday said: have not done it so far, but should be no big deal. Be sure to keep clear of the prop at all time :!:

Joerg
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Re: Quatos for 234mm Quad X? Thrust curve measurement?

Postby Mullet » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:43 pm

Joerg,

Thanks for the hints. I found this as an option for a thrust measurement rig...
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... Stand.html

So without the ESC32 how would I make measurements? It looks like the device you mention would help. What other options would work? Would the extra doodads that this kiwi gentleman is using do the trick? I'm assuming another tool that would help is a tachometer.

https://youtu.be/vb6xuzENlzM?t=269

Like I said going the PID route is probably best out the gate until I can afford to buy all the necessary tools to do a thrust curve. Otherwise, hopefully someone would be willing to do a favor. I'd try to come up with some fair compensation of some sort of course.
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Re: Quatos for 234mm Quad X? Thrust curve measurement?

Postby drone-controls » Tue Apr 28, 2015 2:38 am

Hi

We recommend using Esc32 with Quatos. That thrust rig you found on hobbyking, seems perfect. If you had a Esc32 in closed loop mode, you would give it a set of rpm commands through serial interface(putty) and note down the corresponding thrust values.
Then you would use the excel found here to determine 2 numbers A1, A2
http://autoquad.org/wiki/wiki/quatos-ad ... rpolation/
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Re: Quatos for 234mm Quad X? Thrust curve measurement?

Postby Mullet » Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:15 am

Ok. I understand the recommendation. It sounds like the easiest way to do the measurements is with an ESC32. Anyone have one that they want to part with? Otherwise, it looks like there are others using Quatos without ESC32s or the M4 on-board ESCs. Does Quatos not work 100% with other ESCs? or is it just an optimal thing?
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Re: Quatos for 234mm Quad X? Thrust curve measurement?

Postby aBUGSworstnightmare » Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:01 am

My first post from 'the land of the free' :P !
You can use Quatos with KISS ESCs i.e.; some team members already demonstrated this.
But you always need a thrust curve. Sry!
Have a look at Menno's 250size Quad; if I'm right he also uses SunnySky motors.
I intend to buy a AIRGEAR200 set once available. Should be nice for that size quads.
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Re: Quatos for 234mm Quad X? Thrust curve measurement?

Postby Mullet » Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:36 am

Looked for Menno's 250 quad and I think I found it in this thread...
viewtopic.php?f=40&t=3650&start=10#p26779

They look to be Emax motors. Close but no cigar.

Looks like it will be PID for me, until I can obtain an ESC32 or buy a few of the ESC32v3 when they come out. Eventually, I'll build a medium sized quad or hexa, which would be perfect for the ESC32v3.

Yeah those motors (AIRGEAR200) look nice. Are you going to skip the ESCs and go with KISS ESCs instead?
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Re: Quatos for 234mm Quad X? Thrust curve measurement?

Postby aBUGSworstnightmare » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:19 am

Mullet wrote:Yeah those motors (AIRGEAR200) look nice. Are you going to skip the ESCs and go with KISS ESCs instead?


Yes, that's the plan!
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Re: Quatos for 234mm Quad X? Thrust curve measurement?

Postby Mullet » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:19 am

I still haven't done this yet. I decided to go with the Naze32 for my Raven 234. I figured since the frame is an acro frame I might as well go in that direction. Suffice to say, I'm going to commit and build a 180mm class FPV and I think AQ would be a good choice for this.

I'm going to go with the Turnigy thrust stand. I couldn't locate the Krick one. I did find a few others besides the Turnigy one...

http://www.infinity-hobby.com/main/prod ... s_id=10375

http://www.mcssl.com/store/7af87a7dbaa0 ... rbg7U.dpuf

I'm going to go with 12A KISS ESC for this build. So I'd need to get a hold of Menno's firmware.

I think this will work for a setup... Thrust Stand, Turnigy 7-in-1 multimeter (Don't need this to do Thrust curve measurement, but it's helpful), 12A ESC (might or might not use KISS for test), Turnigy Tachometer, Transmitter (DX7s), Lemon 8ch DSM receiver, DYS 1306 3100kV motors.

I figure I'll use the tachometer to know what RPM I'm at and just apply throttle till I get to 300, 600, etc. RPMs.
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Re: Quatos for 234mm Quad X? Thrust curve measurement?

Postby aBUGSworstnightmare » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:36 am

Mullet wrote:I'm going to go with 12A KISS ESC for this build. So I'd need to get a hold of Menno's firmware.I think this will work for a setup... Thrust Stand, Turnigy 7-in-1 multimeter (Don't need this to do Thrust curve measurement, but it's helpful), 12A ESC (might or might not use KISS for test), Turnigy Tachometer, Transmitter (DX7s), Lemon 8ch DSM receiver, DYS 1306 3100kV motors.I figure I'll use the tachometer to know what RPM I'm at and just apply throttle till I get to 300, 600, etc. RPMs.


You can find Menno's Firmware in the download section (http://autoquad.org/software-downloads/?category=1)

Be sure to use the ESC you will use for flying when doing your thrust curve measurement then there is no Need to check the real RPM value. If not, you would need to check RPM in addition.
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