Quadcopter want to flip when fast throttle up

Info and discussion about the autonomous Micro FC, suitable for nanos, micros and mini multirotors

Re: Quadcopter want to flip when fast throttle up

Postby afernan » Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:31 am

Hi Brat:
KISS ESC and AQ it´s a very difficult couple. I have long experience with this couple and I´ll try to help you. In general line, it Works fine with small machines but not with a mid-large ones like yours.

First of all looking at the Log, there´s a vibration coupling between the AQ controller and the KISS that generates so much vibration levels (about 7m/s2) unaceptable for AQ. On top of that, using PID instead of Quatos makes the problem worst (Quatos is much much less sensible to this effect).

Appart of that it looks that one of your motors reached the max limit (see atached plot) and that was the reason of the flip. Review the params of the motor.

To tune the params, I strongly suggest you to move to Quatos instead of PID. But If you want to still try PID, then you need to reduce a lot the TILT_RATE_D mainly. Play with "F" factor it´s critical (it controls how quick you want to apply a change. F=0.1 means that you´ll need 10 steps to reach 100%). Take care using it.

You should get vibration levels lower than 2m/s2 (in my Q9 quad similar to yours, I get 0.5m/S2, but using ESC32V3 and quatos).

Hope this helps you a bit

Angel
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Re: Quadcopter want to flip when fast throttle up

Postby brat002 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:13 pm

Thank you much. I am waiting for spare bearings and then will try again.
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Re: Quadcopter want to flip when fast throttle up

Postby LPR » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:21 pm

I had told you to change the CTRL_TLT_ANG settings but now I see I had the wrong PID settings.

Angel has much more experience than me with KISS ESC so please follow his suggestions.

Larry
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Re: Quadcopter want to flip when fast throttle up

Postby brat002 » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:17 pm

I replaced RCTimer 15x5.5 propeller (fully sh*t also after balancing) with Tarot 1555 foldable propeller and they are awesome.
My PIDS:
TLT RATE D 9000
TLT RATE F 0.1

TLT ANG P 180
TLT ANG D 3000

Now frame flies nice, but need some additional tuning. Vibrations level around 1.5-2.
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Re: Quadcopter want to flip when fast throttle up

Postby brat002 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:54 pm

I found the reason of flips. I think, my previous build with these MN4006 and KISS 30A had very destructive crash for this reason.
Kiss 30A has sync loss with MN4006 at end of throttle range. I checked all 4 ESC's. All 4 have identical symptoms.
How to live next... I thought, KISS 30A much more resistent to sync loss.
I am really disappointed.
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Re: Quadcopter want to flip when fast throttle up

Postby LPR » Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:30 pm

Loss of sink is caused the by inertia of the prop as in increases in RPM. If you're having your motors slow or stop while slowly increasing their RPM the Kiss ESCs are being overloaded.

Do the RCTimer props have the same problem?

Larry
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Re: Quadcopter want to flip when fast throttle up

Postby brat002 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:49 pm

Yes. The problem is same 100%.
kiss keeps 30A. MN4006 cant consume more than 15.
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Re: Quadcopter want to flip when fast throttle up

Postby brat002 » Wed Feb 10, 2016 10:32 pm

I replaced KIsses with HobbyWing Xrotor 40A. No more sync losses. These ESC little bit heavier, but much cheaper and very effective.
Another one question - will quatos with mennos firmware work with these ESC's?
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