When is acro mode coming?

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When is acro mode coming?

Postby Mullet » Wed Feb 24, 2016 8:07 am

I know that AutoQuad isn't generally made for "acro" style flying and that apparently the feature was going to be added into the firmware... eventually. I'd say it's worth adding because of the popularity of smaller sub 300mm size quads. In terms of coding isn't it a matter of just turning off the accelerometer or is it a lot more complicated to add it as an extra feature?
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby Max » Wed Feb 24, 2016 10:03 am

It's definitely on my wish-list, getting tired of just "pushing it around" since flying a nicely tuned AQ is actually fairly boring... :lol: A lot of what I've been doing lately has been geared towards making future additions like this easier (in terms of setting up the controls, for example).

Would a simple ACC on/off mode suffice, or would an "exponential" mode be preferable? By the latter I mean, for example, the further the pitch/roll stick is from center, the less ACC stability is used (this would need to be adjustable somehow to suit the pilot's preferences). The former would be simpler of course, but I wonder how many would actually use it. There are many inexpensive (and simpler) FCs out there, and as pointed out AQ is not generally geared towards such use.

Thanks,
-Max
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby JussiH » Wed Feb 24, 2016 2:11 pm

Acro mode would be great... :D

I would suggest looking into a "unlimited angle" mode, possibly combined with some expo function. Something like:
Over +/- 500 uS on the control and the angle limiter disappears, and rotation rate increases - allowing to make full flips and loops while still retaining control in the "normal" control band...something like that would be cool.

I think that would work well for Quatos....dont know if it would work at all for PID.
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby Mullet » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:01 pm

I'd agree that turning the accelerometer off would be the easiest solution. Your secondary solution sounds like horizon mode in Multiwii. It seems the way AQ works now it acts more like Angle mode in Multiwii, where the ACC is always active. What Jussi is suggesting seems to make the most sense and is a nice happy medium.

With a FC like the M4, I know there are people who would try it, but don't because yes they can get something cheaper that does what they want. I've heard the comment, "Well, its got a lot of features, but not having an acro mode is a non-starter." Another way of looking at it is that the acro mode would be a gateway into the world of AQ. It just gives people another reason to try the platform. Which after trying a few, is still one of the better ones out there.
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby brat002 » Wed Feb 24, 2016 6:02 pm

Really interested in acro(rate) and air mode.
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby Cookiemonsta » Fri Feb 26, 2016 12:12 am

+1
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby Max » Fri Feb 26, 2016 3:13 am

JussiH wrote:I would suggest looking into a "unlimited angle" mode, possibly combined with some expo function.

AQ doesn't really have limited angles in manual mode, it's mostly a matter of the Tx (RC) limits and the P/R channel scaling settings, and at the end constrained to +/- CTRL_MAX setting.

I'm thinking something like a "rate" mode where the P/R sticks control the requested rate of rotation around the axis (vs. angle, like we do now). Which is actually how the current manual Yaw cuthrough already works now (hence in controls we set a desired yaw rate in */s). From a quick look, a lot of the code/structure is already in place to do this (nice).

JussiH wrote:Over +/- 500 uS on the control and the angle limiter disappears, and rotation rate increases - allowing to make full flips and loops while still retaining control in the "normal" control band...something like that would be cool.

Yea, agreed. The question is does it simply "cut over" to rate mode once the control "margin" (+/-500 or whatever) is exceeded, or does it need a more gradual "merge" of the two somehow? This merge/expo feature is what I'm trying to visualize.

Mullet wrote:Your secondary solution sounds like horizon mode in Multiwii.


Thanks for the hint. I took a quick look at the MWii HORIZON mode code, but i think it works mostly like my first example with a "cut over" point. But I could be wrong... it was a very quick look.

Mullet wrote:It seems the way AQ works now it acts more like Angle mode in Multiwii, where the ACC is always active.

Yes, basically. "Angle mode" means, as I described briefly above, the RC sticks control desired angle of the craft, vs. in "Rate mode" they control speed of rotation around an axis. And yea I think in full "rate mode" the ACC inputs can be ignored.

brat002 wrote:Really interested in acro(rate) and air mode.

What's an "air mode?"

-Max
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby Astudillo » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:35 am

Hi Max,

Air mode is a feature from BorisB beta flight(cleanflight fork) firmware.(https://github.com/borisbstyle/betaflight)

Here's some info from Oscar Liangs's blog.http://blog.oscarliang.net/betaflight-airmode/
So What is Airmode?

In a nutshell, Airmode keeps PID loops active when your throttle stick is at 0, which allows the pilots to steer and control the quad even when the it’s free falling. That enables pilots to pull off some crazy aerobatics, and have better control over the entire throttle range.


Cheers,
Ray
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby brat002 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:42 am

Another name of Air mode is "low power stabilization".
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby Max » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:18 pm

Astudillo wrote:Here's some info from Oscar Liangs's blog.http://blog.oscarliang.net/betaflight-airmode/


Thanks Ray... though I'm still not sure I follow even after reading that page. Does it essentially allow motor output for pitch/roll/yaw commands even if throttle is at zero? So eg. one could still do a spin/roll while free-falling?

If that's the case, since AQ always kees the "PID loop active" I think basically the requirement would be simply never to drop the throttle channel below CTRL_MIN_THROT setting. This could easily be done using a switch-activated mix on the Tx, for example. Basically like Oscar describes...

To avoid accidentally killing throttle and bring the copter into a free-falling rock, some pilots ... assign a switch (aka idle-up switch) to maintain a throttle signal above min_throttle.


However the AQ attitude controller is not "reduced" in any way when the throttle is low, so I don't think a special mode will be needed. As long as you're above CTRL_MIN_THROT, all output is active as per the mixing table and PID/Quatos settings.

-Max
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