When is acro mode coming?

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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby Max » Fri Feb 26, 2016 1:32 pm

In other news, I've flown my first flips with an AQ, in a new rate mode... :) Albeit only on a HIL simulator for now (which is yet another project with a long story). But it's very promising. Still flies very smooth like AQ should, at least in Quatos mode. Haven't tried PID yet but theoretically it should work the same.

At this point I'm not sure a "mixed" rate/angle mode makes a lot of sense... how do you get zero rotation rate if you can't center the sticks? And w/out zero rotation rate, it just keeps accelerating around the axis, no way to stop it at a fixed angle... I've tried a few ways of switching between modes based on stick deflection and so far none of them seem very useful or fun. It would definitely need to be some kind of expo/fusion of rate/angle commands to be interesting.

What does work great is switching back to full-stabilize ("angle") mode from rate mode, even when inverted... AQ pops up like a cork in water. :)

Anyway, more testing to be done.

-Max
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby brat002 » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:00 pm

Great news! :) Waiting for release.
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby LPR » Fri Feb 26, 2016 5:17 pm

Max

Rate mode would add some fun to AQ flying in FPV.

A switch or pushbutton on the Tx to go back to stabilised manual flight mode and barometric altitude hold would help beginners learn FPV.

Larry
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby Patscherpofel » Fri Feb 26, 2016 10:19 pm

Max, I cant follow you 100%
from my experiecne I really like to use the mix mode on other FCs
If I should decribe it ...its tuned like an agressive angle mode ( so you can easily fly very steep angles ,much more then 45 degrees)
then I like to set the transition to rate mode somewhere around 80degrees
this feels very natural cause from there on you normally want to flip it around anyways
its very easy to learn flips and to fpv like this
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby Max » Fri Feb 26, 2016 11:02 pm

Pat, so that sounds basically like a "flip" function? AQ doesn't limit your angle in normal manual mode, except that the control range (recommended +/-700) and scale settings (default 0.05) usually prevents extreme angles (700 * 0.05 = 35* maximum). You can set those to extremes and easily exceed 45* now. Past/close to 90* it gets a lot more dicey especially in regards to yaw control.

So maybe... flip a switch and the roll/pitch Scale settings change to a 2nd set of values so one can fly more aggressively, and at the same time if you exceed X angle demand (eg. 80*) then it goes to full rate mode so you can complete the flip. The Tx itself could also be set up for extra channel output range in this mode (dual rates). Would something like that be useful/interesting?


I'm having trouble deciphering what "horizon mode" does on MWii/baseflight, especially since there are 2 different PID controllers in the code which treat that mode completely differently.

The original/default (?) version is described here as:

HORIZON - A mixture between ACRO and ANGLE modes. Combining the stabilising effect with calm rc sticks and acrobatics with busy rc sticks.

ANGLE MODE mode when PITCH/ROLL sticks are centered. ACRO MODE mode when full PITCH or ROLL sticks are applied, allowing flips.


And the "Alex K" version as described here:

I've changed the horizon mode, sorry. Before, it was just level mode with acro addition at extreme sticks. I changed the concept (because I have no idea, where can old horizon mode used - addition of ACRO only allows for flips, but they are better flown acro mode). Now it is done another way - it's acro, but slowly drifts toward horizontal position. This concept doesn't change any extreme piloting stuff making at the same time hovering easier. This is how I like it for FPV - I don't have to hold the stick all the way forward like in angle mode, but it's much easier to hover. The speed of drift towards horizontal position is determined by I coefficient of level mode.



What do people actually use? Either? I tried the former method as described and it's only useful for flips... like I said, rate mode is useless if you can't command zero rate. In this mode when you center sticks the quad just snaps back to level. But yes, it's fun for flips and easy to recover from bad attitudes ( :) ).

And I'm not sure I understand the 2nd version, with the "slow motion"/gradual leveling assist he describes. Is that useful?

Thanks,
-Max
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby Cookiemonsta » Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:44 pm

I'd vote for pure acro mode, everything else is just another acc mixed mode. For FPV pure acro mode is best. What's so wrong about implementing more than one "acro mode" and make it selectable in a dropdown menu? There can be mixtures and a pure version (only desired rates).
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby Max » Sat Feb 27, 2016 8:03 pm

Yeah, pure rate mode is great and should definitely be an option. I was just ivestigating what these mixed modes were about... never tried any myself. Seems like they're maybe not that practcal, or to work around limitations on other FCs. Doing flips while still in angle mode sounds like the main attraction. Thats fun but gets old pretty quick.

"FPV" used to mean "out for a nice relaxing flight above the trees" and AQ PH/DVH is perfect for that. Now apparently it means racing? Its hard to keep up1 :)

-Max
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby Patscherpofel » Sat Feb 27, 2016 9:35 pm

I agree , acro is by far most important, the rest is mostly options to fool around

off topic , but while talking about flight modes
I allways wish for a gps guided flight mode that flys pretty much exactly like angle mode
I do aerial filming for a living and mostly use angle mode for this
but if its windy and you still want to do slow moves it would be cool to use a gps mode
my problem here is that so it feels not natural to switch back and forth between them
a common gps mode changes the speeds in the wrong order
on angle mode when I change sticks I slowly start a move but then want to keep that speed
But a gps mode starts very fast to compensate for the error and the slows down once it reaches the speed
maybe there a workaround to solve this with the autoquad software, but I haven't found a way to do this
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby Mullet » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:16 am

So it sounds like it will be quite feasible via switch to add in an "acro" or "rate" mode. So this would be "gyro only", but still maintain PIDs or Quatos.

What I think might be cool is to have the option to have it instead of another mode, for instance Alt Hold or Mission mode.

The existing "manual" mode works quite well on AQ... I've never been sure what to call that mode in terms of its equivalence to horizon or angle mode in MultiWii / Cleanflight.

Thanks for considering this!
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Re: When is acro mode coming?

Postby Max » Sun Feb 28, 2016 6:08 am

Patscherpofel wrote:But a gps mode starts very fast to compensate for the error and the slows down once it reaches the speed
maybe there a workaround to solve this with the autoquad software, but I haven't found a way to do this

Yes, adjust the horizontal nav PIDs. Put them on Tx knobs with the new firmware options and you'll quickly be able to tell if you can get the desired effect. You should be able to adjust it for more "lazy" and smoother flight by reducing the Distance/Speed Rate P terms, or just limiting the Speed OM (which is the maximum allowed angle). The wiki page actually describes the Nav PIDs quite well.

Mullet wrote:What I think might be cool is to have the option to have it instead of another mode, for instance Alt Hold or Mission mode.

The new firmware allows you to set up only the switches/modes you actually want to use, including each flight mode, home actions, etc. So this new mode will fit right in. I think it will be OK to arm in this mode, so it could be used as default if one so prefers.

Mullet wrote:The existing "manual" mode works quite well on AQ... I've never been sure what to call that mode in terms of its equivalence to horizon or angle mode in MultiWii / Cleanflight.

In terms of definitions, probably "angle" is closest since what you're doing with the pitch/roll sticks is, literally, commanding/requesting a desired angle (tilt) of the craft. In terms of actual flight characteristics... I don't know. You can do pretty extreme angles with AQ in this mode if you set it up that way and your system can handle it (enough power, well tuned, etc).

-Max
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