Code and dev environment

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Re: Code and dev environment

Postby Max » Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:58 pm

Hi Srinath,

Try it w/out the -quiet? I can't find that switch documented anywhere. However when I don't use it, I get all sorts of output I don't want, so it's definitely doing something.

I'm not clear about the 2nd error... at which point can it not find the .d file? Has it created a ../Release/obj folder at this point? It should automatically create that path but maybe it's failing to do so?

-Max
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Re: Code and dev environment

Postby nikivan » Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:10 pm

Max wrote:Nick, OK, I'll put something together. I think I can leverage other online guides as a basis. I'll make a separate post about compiling on Windows (first step to do anyway).
...
-Max


Thanks, Max. Using the original make file posted on the German forum I was able to compile the project in Windows 7. I only had to change the path to CW folder. You don't even need to activate CW - once installed, all the directories are there. My next step would be to use IDE, so your post would be helpful.

BTW, I have Visual Studio and it seems there are few solutions to use it for ARM development. Anyone tried that?
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Re: Code and dev environment

Postby paul_l_curtis » Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:36 pm

The unique things from Rowley seem to be the STM32 startup and linker files (they're in the STM32 folder provided by Rowley -- STM32_Startup.s and STM32f4.ld).


"BTW no activation needed to just use their compiler/toolchain (with Make or Eclipse or whatever). I pulled the needed parts out of the CW install folder and copied them to another location (so I can remove CW later). Also the CW toolchain code is released under GPL, if I'm not mistaken, since it's based on GNU tools."


Just to be clear on this: The CrossWorks libraries are not GPL, they are constructed from our proprietary sources. The GCC toolchain you can use and rebuild for sure, but the libraries are absolutely not GPL and required a significant amount of work. As such, you can't just extract and combine them them with GPL/LGPL code and distribute the output.

If you need a true GPL solution, you'll need to find another set of libraries and startup code or use a correctly licensed copy of CrossWorks.
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Re: Code and dev environment

Postby kinderkram » Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:56 pm

paul_l_curtis wrote:
The unique things from Rowley seem to be the STM32 startup and linker files (they're in the STM32 folder provided by Rowley -- STM32_Startup.s and STM32f4.ld).


"BTW no activation needed to just use their compiler/toolchain (with Make or Eclipse or whatever). I pulled the needed parts out of the CW install folder and copied them to another location (so I can remove CW later). Also the CW toolchain code is released under GPL, if I'm not mistaken, since it's based on GNU tools."


Just to be clear on this: The CrossWorks libraries are not GPL, they are constructed from our proprietary sources. The GCC toolchain you can use and rebuild for sure, but the libraries are absolutely not GPL and required a significant amount of work. As such, you can't just extract and combine them them with GPL/LGPL code and distribute the output.

If you need a true GPL solution, you'll need to find another set of libraries and startup code or use a correctly licensed copy of CrossWorks.


Hi Paul,
thx for pointing this out!
So this solution is also limited to the 1 month trial period granted by Rowley.
I'll add a warning to my initial post and we'll make it clear that the libraries are proprietary.

Norbert
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Re: Code and dev environment

Postby paul_l_curtis » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:22 am

Hi,

Although the libraries are proprietary, I really would not like to extinguish development using CrossWorks or for customers to rebuild software. I just point out that GPL code, by the very definition, cannot be linked with non-GPL code and distributed without an exception to the GPL as far as I am aware. GPL purists hate this.

What am I trying to say? Re-reading my post I think my position isn't clear. What I am trying to point out is that mixed GPL code and non-GPL code cannot be redistributed without coughing sources to both, as far as I am aware. This is where the OpenOCD crowd got to when developing OpenOCD, which is GPL, and linking with non-GPL libraries, in this case from FTDI. I think that was a bit of cutting nose to spite face, and where the GPL purists didn't really do the community of (mostly pragmatic) developers much good.

I really don't mind people linking with CrossWorks and developing with CrossWorks, and even doing that with an evaluation license if they want to, to get the quads off the ground. If developers find themselves coming back again and again to develop with CrossWorks, then clearly we're doing something right, and would love it if you showed support for us by purchasing a Personal License. :-) Heck, we make personal licenses for just this very situation, discounting our software deeply. We don't live on personal license sales, we live on commercial license sales. My ethos has always been that I would have loved access to CrossWorks when I was young, but would never have been able to afford a commercial license. In this case I want to offer nice software at not rock bottom pricing, but pricing which makes customers consider the purchase and can afford the purchase.

But, in the end, I'm just trying to highlight that GPL code might be incompatible with the CrossWorks model in the end, should the binaries be redistributed (there's the rider). But I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not making GPL software in this instance, and I'm not using it, so it really doesn't worry me.

Normal service should now be resumed. Carry on. :-)
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Re: Code and dev environment

Postby bn999 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:51 am

Crossworks is an exceptional value for the hobbyist given the personal license cost. I chose it for this project because it is a world class IDE tightly coupled to the ARM platform which runs natively on Linux, OSX & Win available at a very reasonable price. No need to fiddle with trying to maintain your own toolchain or worrying about keeping it up to date. Updates for new controllers are always available early and kept up to date with frequent updates. Technical support has been quite responsive to my requests for help and has never failed to resolve an issue. I don't see any conflict with using it to compile open source code to binaries to be distributed (as long as it is done with a commercial license - which I have.) Good companies with good products at good prices should be supported.
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Re: Code and dev environment

Postby kinderkram » Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:54 am

Thx again,
your intentions were clear from the start. :D
Now that you've got 2 posts on your account you can add links on your next one.

I should have paid more attention on that matter, born from the wish to get an easy solution via makefile for Linux users.
Our fault that until now we didn't manage to get a kosher IDE for our exotic crowd of end users.

P.S.: It's also clear now in the German forum where it originated from...

Thx for the wishes,
Norbert
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Re: Code and dev environment

Postby JussiH » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:09 am

Paul, rest assured that this project do not condone/support piracy or "loaning" from closed sources/libraries. And I thought you was perfectly clear in the first and second post. Thanks for bringing it our attention!

The non-hassle of installing and using crossworks, has been worth every cent of the personal license for me, since I did not have to waste weeks of my life setting up GPL toolchains. It has provided a nice and easy entry for me into the world of ARM.

Our lead developer took out a commercial license to make sure that Rowley would not come knocking on our doors when we began to post compiled hex-files on the site.

But as no money is changing hands for the software, are people with personal licenses allowed to compile and post binaries to other community members, or would this be in breach of the personal license terms?

Jussi
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Re: Code and dev environment

Postby Max » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:51 am

Hi Paul,

Thanks for explaining about the ARM libraries and clarifying your position regarding using them for personal purposes. It is certainly not my intention to leverage other people's work w/out their consent or proper licensing (I'm new to the ARM world and all the parts are still a bit confusing). I think as a developer $150 is reasonable to license the libs (and gain CW as a tool should one want/need it), but for "end-users" just to compile a version with their own preferences or whatever, that is a bit onerous. But sounds like the latter is not the case, so that's excellent news and very much appreciated!

Thanks again,
-Max
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Re: Code and dev environment

Postby paul_l_curtis » Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:32 am

Thanks for the support. You know I have absolutely no problems with anybody recompiling the sources and flashing their equipment using CrossWorks. We've even given the nod to other projects in the same position (the fab@home people did this some time ago).

You can rest assured that we're not going to come knocking at anybody's door. But, also, I think it's prudent not to get yourself into the same situation that the OpenOCD people did: hard-core GPL purists decided to contribute to the project and then wagged the dog by invoking the GPL/LGPL clauses and not allowing retrospective application of a license exception.

Today, we are in a very different world where license agreements are taking center stage in many things, so license choice is very important.

Oh, and we give licenses away at our discretion too, to those that we feel would really benefit from using our software but are unable even to muster the cash to purchase a personal license.

Anyway, good luck with your coding!

Regards,

-- Paul.
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