Autoquad M4 meets NYLON-quad (RCTimer Spider)

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Autoquad M4 meets NYLON-quad (RCTimer Spider)

Postby aBUGSworstnightmare » Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:17 pm

Hey guys,
a lot of moaning could be heard during the last weeks about 'unflappable' TBS Disco frames or other stuff using DJI nylon quad arms.

Well, due to that these I had a look in my spares box and here's what I found:
- an RCTimer Spider frame with nice black and red nylon arms (DJI style *yeah*)
- worn out Turnigy motors (due to various crashes when flying with MultiWii or Naze32; don't laugh! I never told you I can fly!)
- unbalanced GemFan 10x45 props in green and black
- a sweet 'lil red M4V2
- a nice purple M4CAN expansion board (I love my little vampire BAT)
- some ESC32V3 prototypes, connected by PWM to the expansion board
- latest Autoquad FW for external ESC
- some screws, a 35x35mm GPS antenna, Bluetooth, zip ties, PDB and some other bits & pieces

Taking this, throwing it all together, adjusting the PIDs to my 'starting points' and 'out to the garden we go'. Well, need to mention that I just grabbed my DX8, so control is not that smooth as with the long sticks on my DX10.

What do you think? Does it blend?? *oh shit* wrong serial! O.K. ... bak to start ... DOES IT FLY!

Grab your balls and check back here....
to be continued 8-) :lol:
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Re: Autoquad M4 meets NYLON-quad (RCTimer Spider)

Postby aBUGSworstnightmare » Thu Jun 25, 2015 5:54 am

video from maiden flight

P.S. still uploading at the time of writing ...
Last edited by aBUGSworstnightmare on Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Autoquad M4 meets NYLON-quad (RCTimer Spider)

Postby aBUGSworstnightmare » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:11 am

airspider.jpg
M4 + RCT Spider (picture extracted from video)

Ingredients list:
RCTimer Spider frame - http://rctimer.com/product-1252.html
Turnigy L2215J-900 Brushless Motor - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... 200w_.html
GemFan 10x45 - green http://flyduino.net/Multikopter-Propeller-CW-CCW_4 and black http://flyduino.net/Multikopter-Propeller-CW-CCW
Readytoflyquad PDB - http://www.readytoflyquads.com/power-distribution-board
GPS antenna - Taoglas AGGP.35F - http://www.digikey.com/product-search/e ... s=AGGP.35F
ESC32V3 - coming soon
M4CAN - viewtopic.php?f=40&t=3857&start=70#p30957 (you can also use a N4, M4BLCD, or your DIY expansion board. You simple need to have access to 4 PWM for external ESCs)

SANY0080.jpg
Clone DJI nylon arms with motors and ESC32V3. Note the PWM wire (servo wire) to the ESCs. The cable with the Spektrum connector is for CAN (not connected!)

SANY0105.jpg
Overview shot. 5V for the ESC32V3 is supplied from the DC/DC on the M4CAN.
On the first picture you can see that I've used zip ties to fix the cables next to the ESC32V3 to hold them in place. I've also added a layer of tape around the arm to prevent them from vibrating.

SANY0106.jpg
CAN wires were not connected - just PWM

SANY0107.jpg
Autoquad flight controllers like it hard! Note the white standoffs; the total height of the stickup is 37mm --> exactly the same as the DJi arm! This will make your floppy spider frame stiffer!
Last edited by aBUGSworstnightmare on Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Autoquad M4 meets NYLON-quad (RCTimer Spider) - maiden l

Postby aBUGSworstnightmare » Thu Jun 25, 2015 6:38 am

vibration level - maiden flight.jpg
Pretty bad vibration level - as expected! (z-axis not shown for clarity; believe me, it's even worse ..)

That's the combination of soft frames, bad motors and props. Vibration level is very high; maybe I will balance the props ... o.k. ... maybe later (tomorrow , never ...) :lol:
motorclippingonmaiden.jpg
Motors were clipping - need to fix this

checking throttlefactor.jpg
Calculating right throttle factor
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Re: Autoquad M4 meets NYLON-quad (RCTimer Spider)

Postby brat002 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:51 pm

Could you show your PID`s? :)
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Re: Autoquad M4 meets NYLON-quad (RCTimer Spider)

Postby brat002 » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:00 pm

And, may be you can answer, WHY all these people https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... overy+naza are flying on flappable TBS frames without serious visible issues? It is just practical interest for me.
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Re: Autoquad M4 meets NYLON-quad (RCTimer Spider)

Postby aBUGSworstnightmare » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:13 pm

Hi,
this are the PIDs from the maiden flight - so from the video shown above. They need further tuning (i.e. throttle factor, etc.).
I will post all parameters (ESC32V3 data, M4 parameters, motor thrust curve for Quatos (will test later with QUATOS too)) when tuning is finished.
PARAMS_RCtSpider_25062015_1138.txt
(14.83 KiB) Downloaded 186 times


I'm sorry, but I've never flown a NAZA! Sorry, can't comment on this.
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Re: Autoquad M4 meets NYLON-quad (RCTimer Spider)

Postby chschmid » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:30 pm

brat002 wrote:And, may be you can answer, WHY all these people https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... overy+naza are flying on flappable TBS frames without serious visible issues? It is just practical interest for me.


That's the problem. The issues are not visible. But the sensors see them. And may go crazy if the issues are too severe.
In Jörgs vid you can hardly see that something is wrong. In the log you can.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tbs+discovery+naza+crash
Cheers
Christof
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Re: Autoquad M4 meets NYLON-quad (RCTimer Spider)

Postby Max » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:49 am

Wow, flies surprisingly well, Joerg! ;) Even with all the vibes, the motor outputs are barely clipping, so you still have decent control. I'm sure the CAN interface and fast ESCs are helping a lot here. You can probably get those motor outputs even lower by damping down the attitude controller PIDs some more. Also will be very interesting to compare to Quatos controller.

Cheers,
-Max
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Re: Autoquad M4 meets NYLON-quad (RCTimer Spider)

Postby aBUGSworstnightmare » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:43 am

Max wrote:Wow, flies surprisingly well, Joerg! ;) Even with all the vibes, the motor outputs are barely clipping, so you still have decent control. I'm sure the CAN interface and fast ESCs are helping a lot here. You can probably get those motor outputs even lower by damping down the attitude controller PIDs some more. Also will be very interesting to compare to Quatos controller.

Cheers,
-Max


Hi Max,
it's still on PWM, not on CAN (will test CAN later for sure).
What's your recommendation on the attitude PIDs (parameters were posted above) tuning? Tried to lower TILT_RATE_D a little more but this results in bad (!) oscillations when increasing throttle.

First I will remove the props and balance them (don't expect I will do this perfectly; I will just see if there's a difference).
Quatos is next then.

Max, I didn't expect it will fly! Fired it up in the room without props (!) and it started crawling on the floor --> I knew there were some pretty bad vibrations :lol:
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